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MSFraud.org > Message Board > Anybody get an offer to modify their loan???
 
 


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Smurf
    10/26/07 at 08:01 AM
  Reply with quote#36

Well I went yesterday to see one of those counslers and they didn.t help me at all all they told me is to sell my home and if I wanted to sell it to call them back or to talk to my bankruptcy lawyer to see if they will modify the loan great help I drove and hour in a half to be told to sell my home.These were her words.This is the reomendation they gave us.I don't know if you can see it that well because I scan it inti my computer.

 
 
This other paper below we had to sign before they took at look at all our information


 



 

Joe B
    10/26/07 at 08:57 AM
  Reply with quote#37

Smurf-

     I think we can probably start a whole other topic about these so-called rescue firms, or folks that promise to help.

     I am sorry to hear about your wasted day. Your images did not scan. Can you tell the board who you went to see, so everyone else can avoid a similar experience?

     I hate to see people who are being hosed, be hosed again by people who claim they are trying to help! I think some of us have a similar experience with our attorneys...

     So, for those of you keeping score at home, there are still VERY FEW people on this board who have been offered help by their lenders... And so far no one--not a single person-- who has stated that they actually received and were approved for a favorable modification.

     I don't know how many people read this board, but I would have thought that at least some small amount of us would have had some kind of offer by now, especially considering all of the "mod squads" and CountryWide's $60 Billion in help they are committed to!! Hard to believe isn't it? Surely these companies wouldn't be misleading the press would they??

Hang in there!!

JB

    
Smurf
    10/26/07 at 10:54 AM
  Reply with quote#38

JB the one that I went to was

Affordable Housing Partnership


They gave me a paper with This is their recomendation


1) Consider selling the home unless your income increases. you have a short fall of $1556 in your income.

2) Speak to your Attorney about the ramifications of selling though.I am not sure if you will have to pay the clains in your bankruptcy if you sell and are there any other legal options available to you to avoid losing all profit from the sale so you can move.For instance it better to have the bankruptcy dismissed then sell

3)If your income increases to cover your shortfall then consider refinanncing. all counselor for modifation within the loss mitigation dept of your bank.

4)In the mean time continue to pay your mortgage above all else.
Linda
    10/27/07 at 10:09 AM
  Reply with quote#39

I was offered a loan mod from Homeq's attorney after emailing their CEO and Chief Financial officer.  I don't need a mod as we are current on our loan but they have ruined our credit by reporting us late when we were not.  This was there offer to stop me from giving out their email address.  I have also email Bob Diamond who is CEO of Barclays Capital who owns Homeq.

Joe B
    10/27/07 at 11:00 AM
  Reply with quote#40

Linda-

     I am glad that you reached out to the 'leadership' of HomeEq. I am also pleased that they offered you a modification. I have a couple of questions for the "score sheet."

     What are the terms of the modification? Are they better than you have now? How much are the fees in this modification? Do they require you to sign a release, or other non-disclosure agreement?

     Most importantly, will the modification leave you better off financially than you are now?

     Basically, I think I would like to know the terms you have now, the terms they are proposing, and any "strings" they are attaching to this mod... Thanks and good luck!!

JB
Linda
    10/27/07 at 11:37 AM
  Reply with quote#41

Joe

I refused to agree to the modification.  I have no idea what their terms are as I am not behind on my loan, however Homeq has reported us late when we were not but can't get them to fix it therefore having a hard time refinancing before arm comes due in decemember.  I think the attorney is trying to settle with me in order to get me to stop posting the contact info on Homeq management.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe B
Linda-

     I am glad that you reached out to the 'leadership' of HomeEq. I am also pleased that they offered you a modification. I have a couple of questions for the "score sheet."

     What are the terms of the modification? Are they better than you have now? How much are the fees in this modification? Do they require you to sign a release, or other non-disclosure agreement?

     Most importantly, will the modification leave you better off financially than you are now?

     Basically, I think I would like to know the terms you have now, the terms they are proposing, and any "strings" they are attaching to this mod... Thanks and good luck!!

JB

Smurf
    10/27/07 at 06:06 PM
  Reply with quote#42

I feel they are not going to help anyone .I think anyone that goes to any of these counseling they just putting it in to the system to know who they think my fall next. And to more or less have a count on how many people will fall.

smurf
    10/28/07 at 01:28 PM
  Reply with quote#43

Click here: The Denver Post - Foreclosing on the American Dream

Joe B
    10/28/07 at 02:06 PM
  Reply with quote#44

Smurf-
    
     I didn't see anything on this page about people receiving offers to modify their current loans, or did I miss something? I may have missed it. 

     I saw a lot of headlines about mortgages and foreclosure, but nothing about MS Fraud, and nothing about people receiving offers to modify their loans.
 
     Maybe you can point me in the right direction...

 
JB


justme
    11/01/07 at 05:25 PM
  Reply with quote#45

I havent been offered a loan modification at all. In fact, I sent my financial info to countrywide and they "never received them"! I was told to FAX them to a number, which I did. Upon following up on the fax, I was then told that the number I sent them to, was the INCORRECT number that was given to me by countrywide, in writing nonetheless! I asked for a mailing address to send the financial info and they said they cant give me one, and to re-fax the financial info. I've been getting nothing but a huge run-around. I get calls from Countrywide while Im at work and they leave messages to call them back. I do that, and get the run-around again with all of these different customer service people. This is just like Litton, another horrible company that I had to contend with for over a year. If I could get my interest rate reduced, and actually speak to someone who could do this, I could have my home,and my life back, but instead, it seems that nobody at countrywide knows what on earth to do with these phone calls from people who need help!
        As for the person on this site who truly received help from a foreclosure rescue place, I'd love to know the name of the company they went through because there are a lot of snakes in that industry also. Just please let me know, I do need help! (The ole, sell your house to me, and become the renter, and then pay for a year and buy your own house back routine. If you become a renter in your own home, you just lost your home.) I just want to stay in this home, and be offered some sort of workout program. Anyone from Countrywide listening? I doubt it. There isnt an actual program available through the govt. yet, is there?
Trish
    11/03/07 at 01:04 PM
  Reply with quote#46

We got sold to Litton a couple of months ago.  My ARM adjusts in January 2008---no one is asking me if I want a loan modification.
Our 2nd mortgage is with HSBC, haven't heard a peep from them either.
Help
    11/03/07 at 04:54 PM
  Reply with quote#47

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda
I was offered a loan mod from Homeq's attorney after emailing their CEO and Chief Financial officer.  I don't need a mod as we are current on our loan but they have ruined our credit by reporting us late when we were not.  This was there offer to stop me from giving out their email address.  I have also email Bob Diamond who is CEO of Barclays Capital who owns Homeq.


Linda,
 Please tell me what you said to them to get tehm to offer a loan Mod?
That's what we are is need of with them?
Thanks
Under Dog
    11/06/07 at 02:35 PM
  Reply with quote#48

TX Attorney General Urges Top Lenders, Loan Servicers to Address Growing Housing Crisis

Updated: Nov 6, 2007 11:26 AM EST

File photo of Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott.
File photo of Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott.

From news release:

Abbott presses companies to adopt new measures to help consumers avoid foreclosures

AUSTIN - Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott proposed a series of foreclosure prevention measures to four home mortgage lending and residential loan servicing companies. At a meeting convened Monday by the Office of the Attorney General, mortgage industry leaders were asked to implement several important measures that are designed to prevent Texans from losing their homes to foreclosure.

By the end of next year, approximately $600 billion worth of subprime adjustable-rate mortgages are expected to increase homeowners' monthly payments nationwide. During yesterday's meeting, Citigroup, HSBC, Wells Fargo and Chase were urged to implement several measures designed to preserve homeownership in Texas, improve consumer communication, and resolve complaints.

"Mortgage lenders, loan servicers, and public officials must work cooperatively on behalf of Texas homeowners who are affected by the looming housing crisis," said Attorney General Abbott. "Because of the housing industry's tremendous economic impact, resolving this issue is important to the Texas economy's continued growth and expansion. We believe that the proposals laid out in our meeting offer real solutions that will help keep Texans in their homes."

Attorney General Abbott outlined five measures that lenders and loan servicers should implement to restore borrowers' financial stability and reduce foreclosures in Texas:

  • Provide long-term solutions for borrowers with adjustable-rate mortgage loans (ARMs). Mortgage companies should consider easing homeowners' mortgage-related burdens by converting adjustable-rate loans into fixed-rate products. Many ARM loans have already adjusted and pushed countless consumers into the foreclosure process. Because of high foreclosure costs, this proposal benefits lenders, loan servicers and homeowners.
  • Mitigate first, collect second. Under the protocols currently used by most lenders, homeowners who have difficulty making payments receive expedited referral to the collection process, which is often antagonistic and intimidating. Attorney General Abbott encouraged companies to engage homeowners before sending a case to collections by reviewing each case in a non-confrontational setting and exploring solutions, the chances of a debtor repaying their obligations increases.
  • Create an in-house resolution committee to address consumer complaints. Attorney General Abbott urged Monday's participants to dedicate in-house staff to immediately address consumer complaints received by the Texas Office of the Attorney General (OAG) and report promptly to the OAG on the status of those complaints.
  • Improve communication with consumers. While many companies have adjusted their protocols and are engaging consumers who face imminent foreclosure, Attorney General Abbott recommended that companies improve their communication efforts. The attorney general also encouraged the companies to contact consumers well before ARMs reset to higher interest rates so that fixed-rate options can be explored.
  • Waive applicable penalties and fees. Attorney General Abbott urged lenders and loan servicers to waive penalties and late fees associated with loans at risk of foreclosure while the companies work with troubled consumers to preserve their loans.

Attorney General Abbott also requested that Monday's participants follow up with the OAG within 30 days on their implementation of these five measures. Specifically, he wants to know the percentage of ARMs that were converted to fixed-rate loans and the number of service fees that were waived.

In October, Attorney General Abbott made the same proposals during a meeting with Countrywide Mortgage, Houston-based Litton Loan Servicing and Dallas-based EMC Mortgage.

Protecting Texas consumers is one of Attorney General Abbott's top priorities. Under the Deceptive Trade Practices Act, the OAG has prosecuted a variety of deceptive loan practices, including title-related scams, fraudulent refinancing ploys, and other mortgage-related fraud.
Earlier this year, the OAG obtained $21 million in restitution for Texans harmed by lending giant Ameriquest Mortgage Co.'s deceptive lending practices. The settlement resolved allegations that Ameriquest and its affiliates did not adequately disclose certain terms to homeowners, including whether loans carried fixed or adjustable rates. According to court documents filed by the OAG, Ameriquest also charged excessive origination fees and prepayment penalties, refinanced borrowers into improper loans and inflated appraisals that qualified borrowers for loans.

In 2006, Attorney General Abbott negotiated a landmark agreement with Green Tree Servicing L.L.C., a Minnesota-based firm that services manufactured housing debts in Texas. Under the settlement, Green Tree agreed to assist more than 1,200 Texas homeowners who may have been issued invalid titles to homes they purchased from more than 115 unlicensed retailers in 2003. In a related move, the Attorney General secured an injunction and asset freeze against the unlicensed sellers. The Office of the Attorney General has also halted scams purporting to save homeowners' properties from condemnation. It has also cracked down on various title-related and refinancing scams.

To better assist Texans who are considering a mortgage loan, Attorney General Abbott recently added new online resources to the agency's Web site. The new Web page, "Avoiding Home-Buying Pitfalls and Scams," provides consumers with guidelines about the home-buying process as well as other helpful information. The Web page also provides tips on recognizing "foreclosure rescue" scams, equity-stripping schemes and other refinancing pitfalls. Consumers who believe they have been targeted by a mortgage-related scam should contact the Office of the Attorney General at (800) 252-8011.

Dee
    11/07/07 at 09:40 AM
  Reply with quote#49

I don't see the the Texas Attorney General doing much to give incentive
to servicers that are fee driven profit mongers to change their profitable
business practices that are outright fraud against the borrowers.

How about filing a lawsuit and naming them.  Call it what you want but it is fraud.  The most popular word used to describe it is deceptive practices
aka Fraudulent practices.

What's in a name?

He would better serve his constituents to eliminate fraud in his state.

Sure, we get it.  They are large campaign contributors.

If he files suit, he will have better luck bringing them to the bargaining table.

None of these servicers can keep a payment history straight.  It is simple
math and they can't do it.  Their computer programs area the source and
servicers claim the technology does not exist to keep accurate records.

That is such a bullshit excuse.  Dudes, hire a programmer.  Get it done
quickly.

How will these incompetent despicable business practices ever be changed?

Not by asking nicely.

When you ask a servicer to keep accurate statistics, they'll be going, I can't
do that so I'll just make it up like they do the borrowers records of repayment
and the fiction they use for assessing fees.

So long as this attorney general believes that foreclosure hurts the servicer;
he still doesn't get it. 

He ought to stop believing the perpetrators and make them prove these
allegations right next to the proof that borrowers have that the servicers
make a boatload of money off fees and assessments even before foreclosure
is implemented.

Can he not read United States of America v. Fairbanks Capital Corp.?

It is the same scam with each of the servicers. 

Can he not read the settlement documents?

Can he not read "Best Practices"?

Once again, no teeth to this request to the servicers.

What's going to happen if they don't meet his expectations?

Another request?

Oh well, they did their best and look how I helped borrowers
that have ARM's that reset next year.

I hope some borrowers get help but his proposal does nothing to cure
the culture of fraud against borrowers.

If we can figure this stuff out, he certainly should be capable of it.

If you don't prosecute fraud, you have passively made it legal to commit
fraud against borrowers.

Dee






Joe B
    11/07/07 at 10:52 AM
  Reply with quote#50

Dee-

     I agree with your post, and your feelings!

     Here's the simplest way I have of explaining:

Who has the most to gain by lying? I can put my payments out on the table and show when they were presented and paid.

They want to put their spreadsheet on the table to show when they actually "received" the payment.

If these two things disagree, who stands to gain the most?

If I am lying about the date on the payments, the most I get is some late fees returned, and I keep paying my mortgage. So, if I am lying about the dates they were paid, I save a couple hundred dollars in late fees at best, but spend thousands on an attorney to do it.

On the other hand, if they lie about the dates they received the payments, they get late fees, f/c fees, legal fees, inspection fees, BPO fees, interest charges on those fees, the right to sell my house, list my house (tacking on layers of fees along the way), charge the investors for any dreamed up "shortage," and anything else they can dream up, PLUS all the equity I have built up over the last 10 years!

So, exactly to whom do the scales tilt by lying in this transaction? Why would I spend thousands on an attorney to save hundreds in late fees? On the other hand, why would they begin foreclosure to collect all the fees they have at their disposal? There is simply no contest!!

How hard is it to understand why they do this? Good grief, why can't these people understand what we are up against?

JB
ChumpChange
    11/07/07 at 03:13 PM
  Reply with quote#51

Subprime bailouts: Chump check - Nov. 5, 2007

~Beenawhile~
    11/07/07 at 05:01 PM
  Reply with quote#52

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe B
Dee-

     I agree with your post, and your feelings! 

Me too great post.

     Here's the simplest way I have of explaining:
Joe you're explanation was AWESOME!
This can be used as a demonstration/example to all of those who are still looking for an Attorney. All they have to do is print out what you said below and take it to an Attorneys office, while they are looking for Lawful Representation. This example, would also help the lawyer see the $$$$$$ sign, as he's reading it. What "Law abiding" Attorney would want to pass up the opportunity to represent a case for the borrower when it is explained in this manner.

I think your post should be POSTED ON THE MEMORABLE POSTS PAGE.
Just my thoughts.
Nice, Nice, Nice job!

Who has the most to gain by lying? I can put my payments out on the table and show when they were presented and paid.

They want to put their spreadsheet on the table to show when they actually "received" the payment.

If these two things disagree, who stands to gain the most?

If I am lying about the date on the payments, the most I get is some late fees returned, and I keep paying my mortgage. So, if I am lying about the dates they were paid, I save a couple hundred dollars in late fees at best, but spend thousands on an attorney to do it.

On the other hand, if they lie about the dates they received the payments, they get late fees, f/c fees, legal fees, inspection fees, BPO fees, interest charges on those fees, the right to sell my house, list my house (tacking on layers of fees along the way), charge the investors for any dreamed up "shortage," and anything else they can dream up, PLUS all the equity I have built up over the last 10 years!

So, exactly to whom do the scales tilt by lying in this transaction? Why would I spend thousands on an attorney to save hundreds in late fees? On the other hand, why would they begin foreclosure to collect all the fees they have at their disposal? There is simply no contest!!

How hard is it to understand why they do this? Good grief, why can't these people understand what we are up against?

JB

O -
    11/08/07 at 05:25 PM
  Reply with quote#53

State gets tough on lenders that won't promise to modify loans ...
Columbus Dispatch - 1 hour ago
The governor last month asked loan providers, such as JPMorgan Chase, Ameriquest Mortgage, CitiGroup, HSBC, Wells Fargo Mortgage and Washington Mutual, to agree to make home preservation a priority, including the possibility of switching homeowners to ...

srsd
    11/08/07 at 06:51 PM
  Reply with quote#54

I asked Ameriquest(citi residential) about modifying our loan before we went into foreclosure and they said we didn`t have enough income to keep our house even though we had just missed 1 payment due to aneurysm surgery.  we was going to send both payments at the same time the next month and we got 3 statements from 3 different places telling us to send the payment to them.  We didn`t know where t send it so I contacted our lawyer and while we were trying to find who to pay we was foreclosed on.  2 days after the foreclosure, we got a letter stating that the data processing dept had made a mistake and caused confusion as to where to send the payment. ..the letter was a little too late considering they had already foreclosed.
It is strange that our income was fine for the mortgage to start with and has increased a lot since then yet we didn`t make enough money.

~Beenawhile~
    11/08/07 at 08:22 PM
  Reply with quote#55

To srds,

That is so sad, and I'm very sorry you have lost your home.
DON'T GIVE UP THE FIGHT!!
KEEP GOING STRONG, hang in there and make sure you've got a good Attorney staying on top of it.
StillNoOffers?
    11/19/07 at 09:16 PM
  Reply with quote#56

Rip-off Report: Citi Residential Lending / Ameriquest, Ameriquest Screwed us now Citi who bought loan won't take money and ar...

O -
    11/21/07 at 01:09 PM
  Reply with quote#57

Loan Modification & Loan Workout News: Paulson Wants to Develop Standard Criteria That's Going to Allow for Loan Modification...

Joe B
    11/21/07 at 01:45 PM
  Reply with quote#58

O-

     I think this would be absolutely awesome, if it had any chance at all of happening. Here's the rest of the article, and in this article, it shows all the roadblocks the servicers, lender, trusts, et all will put up in order to shoot down this idea.

     However, here's the real reason... by allowing leders and servicers to set their own standards, each of them can show (or at least tell) that they are working hard to help people and work-out loans, without actually demonstrating that they ARE actually doing it. If everyone can self-police, then it means nothing. It also means that they can tell the authorities how hard they are working, and then only do re-works for those willing to sign away their rights. So, if uniform standards are set, all of a sudden the servicers lose their leverage to hide all of these toxic loans out there, by labeling them re-works, because they would also have to re-work ones that are currently profitable for them!

IMO

JB

Paulson Wants to Develop Standard Criteria That's Going to Allow for Loan Modifications and Loan Workouts

"We're never going to be able to process the number of workouts and modifications that are going to be necessary doing it just sort of one-off," Mr. Paulson said. "I've talked to enough people now to know there's no way that's going to work."

Amen! I have been saying this all along and this will remain a huge issue as hundreds of thousands of mortgage need to be worked out.

Paulson is "aggressively encouraging" lenders and servicers to scrap the original plan of working with borrowers on case by case basis and adopt a broad approach to loan modifications. Paulson said in an interview yesterday that he wanted lenders to develop criteria that would enable large groups of borrowers who might default on their payments to qualify for loans with better terms."  He also said the number of potential home-loan defaults "will be significantly bigger" in 2008 than in 2007."

It is not a cure all. It is not the perfect solution. Yes, there will be people that lose here. But it's truly the only way.

Tanta from CR had something to say as usual about Paulson's plan and I don't always agree with her capitalistic views, but I did agree with her on this point she made.

"You just have to break down and look at the borrower, the property, and the overall situation, to see if this is possibly a 90 center or inevitably a 70 center.

That requires people with skills. Enough people with skills to look at a lot of delinquent or about-to-be delinquent loans fast enough to not miss your window of opportunity on that 90 cents. Time is money in this business.

The industry is telling you right now that they just don't have enough people with the right skills to be able to wade through all the problem (or potential problem) loans fast enough to make the workout/foreclose decision. There are two reasons for this. The first is inevitable: no one runs a servicing operation with that many extra people sitting around waiting for a mortgage crisis. The second is not inevitable but is surely predictable: once the crisis happens, lenders start laying off, not beefing up, because crisis means earnings are down and you know what that means. I'm guessing that you had some experience with that kind of issue at Goldman. Plus the whole thing is complicated by these complicated securities we cheerfully put these loans in, that now have a bunch of complicated rules for getting them out. You know how securities lawyers bill out, don't you?"

This is a problem now and it will be a HUGE problem. These lenders and servicers simply do not have enough man power in these loss mitigation departments to handle the struggling borrowers right now. The confusion and lack of organization that is going on in these departments right now is to the point or ridiculously shameful and to the point of abusive.

If efforts are scaled up and lenders agree to and kind of mass loan workout of these mortgages, we are still going to have this problem but intensified by a million fold. Plain and simple.

In order to develop a "standard criteria" as Paulson is pushing for, would require lenders and servicers to beef up these departments and invest hundreds of millions of dollars to essentially "fix" what they helped create. They need to be held accountable and forced to "properly" employ "legitimate" efforts to work with borrowers.

There simply is no way in hell, that this can be done without a MASSIVE effort form lenders, servicers, government, non-profits, legal aid, third part loss mitigation companies etc.

Government needs to approach this like they would a natural disaster and either get lenders (who I believe should pay for the toxic loan clean up) to spend the necessary money to hire personnel and training or our government will foot the bill.

That's our choices for now. Like it or not.


This Might Be Helpful
    11/21/07 at 01:47 PM
  Reply with quote#59

You guys need to check out this site! It might be helpful to someone. I don't know to much about it so far so check it out for your self. I found it on PLA.



nick
    11/24/07 at 02:34 AM
  Reply with quote#60

Yes but I am waying to talk to my lawyer. I even got a call from there lawyer saying that they want to help me keep my home all documents were forged only three were my signatures the rest were forged. I will be puting out a letter about my matter. Just dont give up there is hope. If I can help any one email me back. I think I can .

Nick Ramirez
Feeling the HEAT!
    11/26/07 at 10:07 AM
  Reply with quote#61

Citigroup Feels Heat To Modify Mortgages - WSJ.com


[Chart]
Smurf
    11/28/07 at 10:16 AM
  Reply with quote#62

Foreclosure rescue: Saving a home

How a Cleveland family got into a mortgage mess and what they did to keep their house.

 
 
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By Les Christie, CNNMoney.com staff writer


stutzman.03.jpg
When Darlene Stutzman thought her family was going to lose their home, she went out looking for help.
Bankrate.com
 
 

CLEVELAND (CNNMoney.com) -- When Darlene Stutzman visited the offices of the East Side Organizing Project, a community advocacy group in Cleveland, she didn't know if she'd be able to keep her home.

She showed up on a Wednesday - "intake day" - when ESOP offers group and individual counseling for borrowers trapped in bad loans. With qualified borrowers, they can also try to work out a compromise with lenders. The Wednesday sessions are well-attended with as many as 150 people showing up at their peak. Cleveland has one of the highest numbers of foreclosures in the nation.

Stutzman, a young wife and mother from suburban Parma, and her husband, Michael, got in trouble when he got sick and had to take an unpaid leave from work. She found out about ESOP when she called Cleveland's 211 government resources line. Michael, who was back at work, was unable to join her for the counseling session.

The first step Stutzman took at ESOP was to fill out a "Hot Spot Card" that asked questions such as: "Are you up to date on your loan?" "How much can you afford to pay each month?" and "Is your loan in foreclosure now?"

She and a group of five others then listened as counselors James Jones and Samantha Williams told them what ESOP could -- and couldn't -- do for them.

They learned the organization has partnerships with 25 different lenders. If a home is in foreclosure, ESOP may be able to halt the process almost immediately. Jones told them how their loans might be restructured for affordability.

But the best outcome some borrowers could expect, explained Jones, would be a short-sale or deed-in-lieu, where they'd lose their home, but without the black mark of a foreclosure on their credit history.

After the group session, the clients received individual attention. With her mortgage documents in hand, Stutzman met with counselor Jenelle Dame to go over her "Hot Spot Card" and answer other questions about how and why she got behind.

Previous brushes with payment problems, including a bankruptcy, had left her and Michael with less than perfect credit when they bought their house for $119,000 in April, 2006. But Michael had a good job as a machinist, and they were able to get financing from Countrywide Financial (Charts, Fortune 500).

Their first loan was a $97,000 adjustable rate mortgage (ARM) with interest of 8.75 percent, which is fairly expensive. The second mortgage, for $24,290, was a home equity loan at 12.875 percent. The Stutzmans paid about $1,250 a month, including taxes. And then the interest on both loans was set to reset at a higher rate, which would drive their monthly payments up substantially.

Stutzman said Countrywide told them that after a year, they could combine the two mortgages and refinance into a fixed rate. But because of Michael's health problems, he had to take an unpaid leave. The Stutzmans fell behind on their payments, and because they were in default, the lender would not make a deal.

Dame handles ESOP's Countrywide clients, making two regular weekly conference calls with the lender, but she said she's had little luck getting it to play ball. "We've discussed 26 solutions with Countrywide since June," she said, "and gotten no workouts."

But Countrywide has signaled a major policy shift. In October, it launched two programs to help troubled borrowers stay in their homes. In one, the company pledged to refinance, restructure or reduce rates for 52,000 ARM clients. Under the other program, the lender said it would restructure loans based on what borrowers could afford.

Stutzman wasn't aware of Countrywide's latest efforts. And Dame said she was skeptical when they were announced, thinking the plans were little more than publicity stunts.

Stutzman walked into her one-on-one on solid ground: She said she'd kept in touch with Countrywide during all her problems, trying to find a way out, despite getting shuttled from company representative to representative.

At one point, she told Dame, Countrywide agreed to a forbearance arrangement, granting the couple extra time to make up missed payments. They intended to dip into Michael's 401(k), but his company was changing hands, and the money was locked up during the transition.

The one-on-one ended on a mixed note. Dame thought the Stutzmans had a good case for restructuring, one that would have been attractive to many of the other lenders ESOP works with. But she had so little luck getting workouts from Countrywide, she still had strong doubts.

The next day, Dame suggested the Stutzmans' workout to Countrywide on one of her regular conference calls and waited for a response. A week later, she said, Countrywide agreed to the plan, along with those for 10 other ESOP clients. Dame contacted Stutzman, got her in touch with Countrywide, and they were able to reach a deal.

Countrywide converted the Stutzmans' ARM into a fixed rate mortgage at 8.75 percent. The second mortgage was entirely forgiven with the debt wiped out. The couple's loan payment would drop to $785 a month, plus taxes, and it would stay there, well within their budget.

Dame was surprised: While other ESOP partners have made similar concessions like loan forgiveness, it was the first time Countrywide did it for one of her clients.

But the plan made sense for the company, she said. A single foreclosure costs a lender an average of $50,000, according to a study from Congress' Joint Economic Committee. Countrywide may be losing money on its original deal with the Stutzmans, but it's still receiving payments, and it doesn't have to unload a house in a depressed market.

"It makes good sense, because Countrywide will be collecting on a loan that someone can afford to pay," said Dame.

Stutzman more reserved about the outcome. "It sounds good, but I think it's something that should have been done a long time ago," she said.

Countrywide did not make itself available for comment on this piece. http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/19/real_estate/foreclosure_fix_Stutzmans/?postversion=2007112112#TOP

http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/19/real_estate/foreclosure_fix_Stutzmans/?postversion=2007112112




Joe B
    11/28/07 at 11:06 AM
  Reply with quote#63

Smurf-

     I would like to think this is the beginning of a new trend, but I remain a little skeptical. The article says that they worked out plans of 11 total people so far. This program has run since June when they started, and only since October/November has CW shown any real movement.

     Now, this could be a good sign, or an act to shut-up bad loans and getting some good press while doing so!

     The article states the myth once again that lenders lose $50,000 on each foreclosure. So, if this math is even close to being right, any deal they could work at all would be better for their investors. So, why would a bank spend any money at all to pursue a f/c that they know going in they are going to lose $50K? The answer MUST be that it either doesn't really lose this money, or it perhaps makes money by pursuing this option. How is losing $50K on each f/c acting in the best interest of their investors? Clearly there must be more to it, don't you think? Now in this case, they didn't really "LOSE" the full second note as the article suggests.

     So, let's look at the math. The loan prior to the deal was a total of $1,250, including taxes. The "new" deal is going to cost $875 PLUS taxes. So I ran the numbers... Their old deal was $1,250 per month, but that breaks out as:
$97,000 at 8.75%     payment equals $763.00
$24,290 at 12.875%  payment equals $266.00
for a total of $1,029.00, meaning there must be approximately $225.00 in taxes each month.

     The new deal is $875.00 without taxes, so add in the $225.00, and we get $1,100.00, or a net savings of $150.00 a month. Now surely $150.00 in this family's pocket is better than in Countrywide's, and the idea of having a fixed loan is better than an ARM.

     However, the 30 year rate for a $97,000 loan at 8.75% (their new loan rate) is only $763.00. This suggests that Countrywide slammed some fees and costs into this loan to boost the payment by $111.00 per month. So, did they REALLY give up that full second note? Hmmmmm.

     Additionally, what did this family give up to get this new deal? Did they surrender a potential claim of origination or servicing fraud? The article doesn't say. It also doesn't say that they reviewed the loan and payment schedules or anything else. So, we don't really know. However, we do know that CW isn't exactly known for their humanitarian efforts.

     Perhaps this article was less than robust reporting?

JB
Smurf
    11/28/07 at 11:53 AM
  Reply with quote#64

Editorial: A plan to avoid foreclosures and aid borrowers

Schwarzenegger pushes lenders to act collectively to ameliorate mortgage crisis

Published 12:00 am PST Wednesday, November 28, 2007
Story appeared in EDITORIALS section, Page B6

California led the nation in offering risky, nontraditional home loans to borrowers and now leads in the mortgage meltdown.

The state is paying for years of careless lending practices. From July to September, 148,000 of 635,000 foreclosure filings nationwide were in California. The state accounts for six of the country's top 10 metropolitan areas with the most foreclosures, Sacramento among them.

Nontraditional loans that already had high starter interest rates of 7 percent to 9 percent for the first two or three years (compared with 6 percent to 7 percent for a conventional fixed loan) are resetting as high as 12 percent, causing monthly payments to explode.

The state has been reluctant to do much of anything, allowing bad lending standards to proliferate. But as the economy and state revenues take a big hit, that approach is changing. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger finally has moved into action, pressing loan servicers to avoid foreclosures and encouraging borrowers to get help.

Faced with struggling borrowers, loan servicers can either modify the loans or foreclose. Though mortgage companies on average lose about $58,000 with each foreclosure, to date few loan servicers have offered loan modifications, fearing to stand alone.

Schwarzenegger refers to this as a "collective action" problem; unless everybody does the right thing, nobody will do it.

Sheila Bair, chair of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., has proposed a bold remedy: Mortgage service companies should automatically convert all subprime adjustable-rate mortgages to conventional fixed-rate mortgages for the life of the loan. The solution would apply only to borrowers who live in their homes and are current on payments. (That means no relief for speculators.)

Schwarzenegger has taken up her suggestion, working out a code of principles with four companies – Countrywide, GMAC, Litton and HomEq.

The loan servicers will follow a "systematic" and "categorical" approach for all borrowers who live in their homes, are current on their payments and have subprime adjustable-rate mortgages that are scheduled to reset in the next 12 to 18 months. For those borrowers, the loan servicers have agreed to determine who is apt to default and to convert the loans to the introductory rate. However, where Bair wanted that conversion to be for the life of the loan, Schwarzenegger's deal has the conversion for a "sustainable period of time" to be determined by the lender. It could be for the life of the loan – or for three, five or seven years.

Most important, the California Department of Corporations will collect data from the loan servicers on the numbers and length of term of any loan modifications. Only with accurate information can Schwarzenegger and others successfully put pressure on loan servicers to avert a financial crisis – with no government subsidy or bailout.

Schwarzenegger's engagement on this issue is a valuable use of his bully pulpit. The mortgage crisis is a disaster not only for individuals about to lose their homes but for whole communities, lenders, investors and the economy.

California led the country in getting into this economic mess and should lead the country in getting out of it.

http://www.sacbee.com/110/story/525682.html

Ohio
    11/30/07 at 09:31 PM
  Reply with quote#65

Loan Mods are not for the benefit of the borrower. You will see more thievery than you ever thought imaginable.

You have ZERO bargaining power!!

They are nothing more than unconscionable, one sided contracts that allow the lender to "capitalize" whatever dollar amounts they can pluck out of the sky and roll them into a "new" loan agreement. Your payment will be higher the maturity date most of the time will remain the same and when it's all said and done....you won't have a dime of equity left in the home. NOT ONE DIME!

You will find now you have no equity...you're thousands and thousands of dollars deeper in debt on top of what you already owed in the loan because of the new note you signed. Your credit is trashed.....and you are stuck like a rat in a glue trap.

Look hard and long before you leap because this will be your final shot at getting it right....if you think the mortgage broker that refinanced your house was a worthless scumbag creep... be prepared to meet satan face to face if you rush into a loan mod without your asbestos bloomers on. 

It's only a matter of time before $hit hits the fan and the predatory loan mods come crumbling down just as the predatory subprime loans did.

I don't care what you do to it...modified $hit is still $hit.

If your equity has aready been stolen by way of trumped up fees, late charges, attorney fees, foreclosure expenses and the CEO's nudey bar tab how can you ever hope to dispute these bogus fees when they all get lumped into a new promissory note that you willingly sign?!

Proceed with extreme caution. 
Ohio
    11/30/07 at 09:38 PM
  Reply with quote#66

Quote:

Faced with struggling borrowers, loan servicers can either modify the loans or foreclose. Though mortgage companies on average lose about $58,000 with each foreclosure, to date few loan servicers have offered loan modifications, fearing to stand alone.


fearing to stand alone??? if loan mods would save lenders money then where's the fear???!!!!

how is saving money versus losing money a fear provoking situation???Pahhhhleeeze.

Have they all gotten their evil brains together and made a pact to not do loan mods??????? sounds like it to me. 
Mike Dillon
    11/30/07 at 10:12 PM
  Reply with quote#67

I have yet to see an actual breakdown of the "losses" that are suffered by lender/note holder due to the process of foreclosure. Every fee and/or expense is charged back to the borrower ultimately eating up any equity  they may have in their property. The only thing that I can think of is that the "average loss" of $50-60k is the projected profit that the note holder would  make due to interest on the loan.

Then, of course, there are the insurance policies that are in place depending on whether the loans are individual loans or securitized. The only one who suffers a loss during foreclosure is the borrower.
Dee
    12/01/07 at 09:49 AM
  Reply with quote#68

I don't know why anyone believes these industry gasbags.

$58,000.00 loss per foreclosure?  Logically, the next question would be; can  you prove that?  Pull 100 loan records and see who loses money.

Nobody here has gained $58,000.00 on a foreclosure.

On the contrary the borrower has lost whatever down payment they made
all the closing costs (overinflated, I might add) and every single payment
they made on the mortgage repayment schedule.

Further aggravating the borrower are the fees that have no foundation in fact.  Borrowers have had to pay fees that were not assessed properly.
Improper assessment of fees that the servicer keeps for themselves is
fraud in my book of rules and regulations.

There is nothing in the law that protects the borrowers from these fraudulent
fees.

As long as a servicer can foreclose on a mortgage loan without proof you are in default legitimately, they make so much money from these fees, they will
never stop and you can never rest and just pay your mortgage unmolested.

The borrower should be able to just toss their payment due in the mail timely
and not have to think about it again until the following month.

Foreclosure was never meant to be a way to steal your home.

Unfortunately, that has happened and continues to happen.

Force them to alter their computer programs or force them to hire a programmer and create a new program that allows for borrowers to be on
time payers.

Those do exist.  They are called amortization programs and they can be
used for free on the internet.

Every borrower should do this amortization schedule on their loans.
You will then know the totals you have paid towards principal and interest
and the balances for principal and interest that you have left to pay.

Stop listening to these gasbags and do some research. 

You would not be happy to see how your mortgage payments are being
abused, misused and misapplied.

Dee







Smurf
    12/05/07 at 08:00 PM
  Reply with quote#69

December 5, 2007.

Subprime Mortgage Crisis in California: Wide-Scale, Systematic Loan Modifications Hold Greatest Promise

The second in a series of three articles

Paul-Leonard-Testifying.jpg Testimony of Paul Leonard
California Office Director
Center for Responsible Lending

Loan modifications offer the most promising alternative for borrowers, taxpayers and the healthy functioning of mortgage markets in the future. They can provide long-term affordability to borrowers while avoiding much more expensive foreclosures for lenders. And even lending industry leaders have acknowledged that many of these borrowers qualified for sustainable, 30-year fixed rate subprime mortgages, typically at a cost of only 50 to 80 basis points above the introductory rate on the unsustainable exploding ARM they were provided. [See January 25, 2007 letter from the Coalition for Fair & Affordable Lending (CFAL), an industry association, to the heads of the federal banking regulators, urging the regulators not to apply the October 4, 2006 Interagency Guidance on Nontraditional Mortgage Product Risks to subprime 2-28 ARM loans.]

In fact, a review of a broad array of lender rate sheets establishes that those borrowers who were given “no doc” loans notwithstanding their ability to document their income could have received 30-year fixed rate fully documented loans at a lower rate than the no-doc 2/28 adjustable-rate mortgages they received. [As recently as July 2007, even as the debacle was unfolding, that remained the case. For example, a borrower with a 620 FICO score, 90% LTV, and 1 –30 day delinquency, could get a 30-year fixed rate mortgage at 10.25% from Option One, compared to 11.9% for a 3/27 stated doc loan. At WaMu’s Long Beach Mortgage, that borrower could get a 10.1% 30-year fixed rate loan, compared to a 10.95% 2/28 Stated income loan.] And this does not include the 20% or so of subprime borrowers who qualified for conventional loans from the beginning.

For most types of subprime loans, African-Americans and Latino borrowers are more likely to be given a higher-cost loan even after controlling for legitimate risk factors. Debbie Gruenstein Bocian, Keith S. Ernst and Wei Li, Unfair Lending: The Effect of Race and Ethnicity on the Price of Subprime Mortgages, Center for Responsible Lending, (May 31, 2006). See also Darryl E. Getter, Consumer Credit Risk and Pricing, Journal of Consumer Affairs (June 22, 2006); Mike Hudson & E. Scott Reckard, More Homeowners with Good Credit Getting Stuck with Higher-Rate Loans, Los Angeles Times p.A-1 (October 24, 2005); Howard Lax, Michael Manti, Paul Raca, Peter Zorn, Subprime Lending: An Investigation of Economic Efficiency, 533, 562, 569, Housing Policy Debate 15(3) (2004).

For borrowers, loan modifications provide the best opportunity to avoid the loss of their homes – ideally with long-term affordable mortgages. The best modifications, as recommended by the FDIC, will convert the existing adjustable rate mortgage to a long-term fixed rate mortgage at the original introductory interest rate for the life of the loan. Given that these initial rates were already risk-adjusted and substantially exceeded prime rates, any alleged “risk” from modifying these loans into sustainable products is mitigated.

This type of adjustment should be sufficient to achieve affordability for borrowers in markets such as California that have not yet experienced significant price declines.

For borrowers in markets with steep price declines, deeper modifications may be necessary. For these borrowers, it still may be economically prudent for servicers to reduce the interest rate or the loan balance, rather than face the even higher costs of foreclosures.

For taxpayers, modifications minimize the negative consequences of foreclosures and prevent the need for large infusions of taxpayer subsidies to avoid them. Specifically, concentrated foreclosures serve to depress the prices of nearby homes, and to reduce the tax income to state and local governments. Concentrated foreclosures can also lead to higher municipal costs, as local governments step in to maintain the security and appearance of vacant homes in their communities. [Erik Eckholm, “Foreclosures force suburbs to flight blight,” The New York Times. March 23, 2007.]

For mortgage markets, modifications refocus market incentives on sustainable loans, a healthy market and sustainable homeownership. Modifications will ensure that losses are borne by the lenders and investors who are responsible for making loans without adequately evaluating the borrower’s ability to repay them. This should lead lenders to make sustainable loans and servicers to properly service their portfolios. As long as any losses resulting from the loan modifications (relative to the original loan terms) are less than the losses that would result from a foreclosure, implementation of modifications is consistent with the servicers’ requirements to maximize cash flows for the investors in securities as a whole.

Despite Lender Rhetoric, Modifications to Date Have Been Limited

For months now, many large servicers have been trumpeting their efforts to contact borrowers facing resets early and to offer aggressive loan modifications. To date, however, the reality of results has not matched the rhetoric. According to a recent survey by Moody’s, less than one percent of borrowers with subprime ARMs were receiving loan modifications at the time when their mortgage payments reset. [Jeanne Sahadi, CNN Money. “Subprime: Big talk, little help.” September 26, 2007. ] The housing counselors, community groups and consumer lawyers we hear from tell us that, in the vast majority of cases, modifications are not happening. [See, e.g., Carolyn Said, “Modified mortgages: Lenders talking, then balking,” San Francisco Chronicle, September 13, 2007.] Additionally, California Reinvestment Coalition recently surveyed 33 of the states’ 80 housing counseling agencies and reported that few long-term affordable modifications were being offered. [The Chasm Between Words and Deeds: Lenders Not Modifying Loans as They Say To Avoid Foreclosures. California Reinvestment Coalition, October 2007.]

We also are hearing that even in the minority of cases where modifications are offered, they are limited to a one-year or even a six-month extension of the introductory interest rate, a modification that is too short-term to allow a family to engage in meaningful planning for their financing, housing and children’s schooling. Any sustainable, meaningful loan modifications would ideally last for the life of the loan, but certainly no shorter than five years.

A related and critical concern is that different borrowers will be treated differently (for example, those who cannot afford legal representation may be at a distinct disadvantage and may not be offered the same, or any, options). One need is to standardize the loan modification process to ensure fairness and efficiency.

There are a number of potential reasons to explain the failure to provide modifications despite their basic economic appeal. These include:

Misaligned financial incentives: It appears that despite the larger economic savings from modifications, servicers may get paid more for a foreclosure than for doing a loan modification. A Deutsche Bank Securities official recently was quoted: “Servicers are generally dis-incented [sic] to do loan modifications because they don’t get paid for them, but they do get paid for foreclosures.” This official went on to indicate that it costs servicers between $750 and $1,000 to complete a loan modification. [Quote from Karen Weaver, managing director and global head of securitization research at Deutsche Bank Securities. “Subprime Debt Outstanding Falls, Servicers Pushed on Loan Mods,” Inside B&C Lending, November 16, 2007 p. 3. ]

• This theory has been bolstered recently, as John Reich, head of OTS, has called for $500 payments to servicers for each loan modification.

Servicers are overwhelmed. The magnitude of the crisis has simply been too much for many servicing operations to respond effectively at the individual level, even when managers support modifications. Hundreds of thousands of borrowers are asking for relief from organizations that have traditionally had a collections mentality, have been increasingly automated, and whose workers are simply not equipped to handle case-by-case negotiations.

Fear of investor lawsuits. The servicer has obligations to the investors who have purchased the mortgage-backed securities through pooling and servicing contracts, but there are conflicting interests among the different levels of investors. Servicers are hesitant to modify the loans because they are concerned that it will impact different tranches of the security differently, and thereby raise the risk of investor lawsuits when one or more tranche inevitably loses income. This phenomenon is known as “tranche warfare.” For example, a modification that defers loss will favor the residual holder if the excess yield account is released, but will hurt senior bondholders. Servicers see foreclosure as the safest course legally.

Piggyback seconds. The most intractable problem is the fact that one-third to one half of 2006 subprime borrowers took out piggyback second mortgages on their home at the same time as they took out their first mortgage. [Credit Suisse, Mortgage Liquidity du Jour: Underestimated No More, March 12, 2007, p. 5.]

• In these cases, the holder of the first mortgage has no incentive to provide modifications that would free up borrower resources to make payments on the second mortgage. At the same time, the holder of the second mortgage has no incentive to support an effective modification, which would likely cause it to face a 100% loss. The holder of the second is better off waiting to see if a borrower can make a few payments before foreclosure. Beyond the inherent economic conflict, dealing with two servicers is a negotiating challenge that most borrowers cannot surmount.

The first article in this series is The Subprime Mortgage Crisis: California at the Epicenter of National Foreclosures.

 

Contact us with news, tips, and rumors. Or, submit a guest column of your own.

http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2007/12/subprime_mortga.html

Joe B
    12/10/07 at 08:15 AM
  Reply with quote#70

Folks-

     So far, I have only seen one post from someone who has been offered a modification on their loan. Does anybody think this is a statistical impossibility?

     I read this morning that of all the people who have applied for the HUD re-work, half will be modified by the end of the month. However, what the article didn't say was how MANY will be modified; seriously, half of 10 is 5 (if my math is right ), so let's get real about this data, huh!

     Of all the readers/posters on this site, and all the rhetoric floating around, no one is being offered a modification... I remain amazed that no one in the press seems to dig deep enough to call the servicers on this.

     I remain hopeful that some of us will actually get some help, but I am beginning to think, as many of us have opined before, that we are on our own!!

     Figures don't lie, but liars can figure!!

JB
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