| Mike Dillon |
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Reply with quote | #141 |
Make sure you read your note, Aimee, to see if you should have been charged for those BPOs in the first place. |
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| Missey |
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Reply with quote | #143 |
My story is typical and we are in the beginning stages of foreclosure (Complaint filed 10/23/2007). I did provide my financial package to Saxon, followed-up to make sure they received it and was told who was assigned to do my workout. I left her a couple messages asking that she call me back to discuss my options. I never received a telephone call back. Finally on Nov 6, I called Saxon once again and reached the person assigned to my case. She suggested that I sell my home and I told her that I didn't want to sell my home and that I wanted to do a modification. She asked how much money I had and told me that it wasn't enough to do a modification. We left it at that I would find the money to save my home and that I could call her back when I could make the payment. I have found the money, having been calling for almost 3 weeks now, the amount keeps increasing ($300 in just 3 weeks), she will not return my calls, when I ask to speak with a supervisor the person on the other line refuses and tells me that "she is the only one that can help" me. I've done everything that has been asked of me, I'm willing to send money and have called several times per day for the past 3 weeks. What do you do when the mortgage company will not return your calls? |
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| srsd |
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Reply with quote | #144 |
Missey, I got the same thing from Ameriquest/city residential...then they foreclosed and then 2 days later sent me a letter that they had inadvertently made a data processing error and so we lost the house even though they admitted they made a mistake. I don`t see how the company can tell a person they can`t afford to keep their house if they have been able to make all of their payments in a timely manner. we missed a payment because my husband was in the hospital and I was going to send it with the next months payment and we got statements from 3 different companies each one of them telling us to send them the payment. I tried to contact them which is impossible so I contacted a lawyer and while we was trying to find out where to send the payment, we was foreclosed on. we had nearly an entire house payment sitting in suspense that was never applied to our account plus we had already had over $2000.00 in suspense that just went missing.
If you have a nice house with equity built up, you might as well kiss it goodbye. It seems like they move very fast to foreclose if you have property that can be moved in a hurry. If you have property that will sit on the market, I think you are more lucky because they want to move the property as soon as they can. A real estate agent came to my house 2 days after the foreclosure wanting to know when I would be moving out so he could list the property.
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| Aimee |
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Reply with quote | #145 |
Missey,
Try this. Send letters to the CEO, President and Board Members ASAP. I guarantee you will get some action. Maybe you can get their attention before they ruin your credit. Send the letters to Saxon Mortgage, Stanley Morgan and Deutsche Bank. I will post later with names and addresses. Send it Certified Mail. I know what you mean when you say you can't talk to anyone. I have tried to call the phone number in VA just to ask if that location is still open. I get the same old recording that rolls over to some of the other locations. Who knows where they are answering the phone calls this week???? Saxon Mortgage foreclosed on us last year before so much negative attention was directed to mortgage companies. Now they have to be worried. In 2002 when our loan was first sold to Saxon, they always answered the phone when we called them. Now they never answer. I called a couple of months ago to ask which location Michael Sawyer could be reached because we read in the news that the Glen Allen location is moving their operations to Fort Worth. The woman asked me to hold on and she would check. She never came back to the phone. Be careful with the loan modification. We did that too. Saxon makes sure that it works out best for them, not the homeowner. They pretended they were going to really help us out. Once we thought we had that all worked out they asked us to send them thousands of dollars more than the first payment plan they promised us. I hope you can get it worked out.
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| Rebecca |
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Reply with quote | #146 |
Hey..I just did a search here online for Saxon Mortgage..and found this forum here...I have no idea what forum site this is, or how it got started but, I wanted to put MY insight in on here! SAXON SUX!!!! The reason I say this IS because, My X-husband had a Condo in California Financed through them (his FIRST home)...an OLD condo that really isnt worth a dollar...but, you probablly know what it's like for some people that are hunting for their first home...sometimes ya get somethn' yer promised and it ends up being something totally different!!! Anyway, that's beside the point!!! So, he's "owned" this Condo now for just a year and a few months back he had to let his cell phone get disconnected for about a month so he asked me if he could use MY # for a contact for Saxon (because, basically they freak out when they can't get ahold of a customer). Ofcourse, being the fact that eventually this home will belong to one of our children and right now it houses all four of them as well as him, I had NO problem whatsoever letting him use my #!!
Sadly approx. approx. a few weeks ago, he became about a week late on his mortgage...which he immediatly paid a few days later, but, DURING this time, I was getting atleast 4 phone calls a DAY (after 6pm)!! SOME of them were automative...others were from the SAME lady but, the phone calls would NOT stop!!! I even TOLD the lady that he had sent a check out already...so....guess what?? Even though he PAID it...they are STILL harassing ME!! EEEEK!!! I EVEN told these idiots that I had NOTHING whatsoever to DO with this person...that he was my X husband!! I very kindly asked them....I even said PLLLEASE.....to take me OFF their LIST!!! And..yet...they STILL harass ME!!! So, tonight, I threatened them with a "mental anguish" lawsuit, LOL!! So, let's hope the phone calls REALLY stop and I won't seriously have to change the number I have had now for 3 years! Anyway...I saw Missey's Posting on here..I am so sorry you are going through this....I hope all goes well with you and that it all works out!! I will keep my fingers crossed...just hang in there and keep doing whatever it takes to get their attention...oh..and ONE thing that has ALWAYS worked EXTREMELY well with me, is the BBB (Better Business Bureau)!!! They know HOW to get the job done...they will do it all for you!!! Well...maybe not ALL of it..but, they know exactly how to push buttons and get businesses attention!! No business wants a horrible rating with the BBB!!! Good Luck!!!
-Rebecca 
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| Aimee |
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Reply with quote | #147 |
Rebecca,
Saxon will get quiet and quit calling you when he gets serious and tries to work something out with them. He should really get online to print off a payment history. He might be surprised what it looks like. You are right they will call over and over again until you start to question them where the payment is. They will probably hold that payment. They still have two payments on our loan that they never posted. They told us where to send a late payment. We sent it. They held it until December 1. It went through their bank on December 2. They sent the check back and foreclosed on December 3. All because they didn't post the payment in May. We didn't know that until we printed off a payment history and found the mistake ourselves when we did a comparison. I hope he can get it worked out. |
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| Michelle M |
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Reply with quote | #148 |
Ok. Now that I have read all of the horror stories, has anyone out there got anywhere with them. Anything positive. I am not sure what to do, I am a single mom of 2 and my apr is going to go up next year and have no clue what to do. Please I am willing to try anything at this point. What if we all got together and met at the headquarters at Saxon and started a line. Maybe then we could get somewhere. I am ready to contact the Television News cast and see what they can do. PLEASE HELP I DONT WANT TO FORECLOSE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE HAS TO DO> |
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| MICHELLE M |
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Reply with quote | #149 |
Oh one more thing what is the actual link to this website. I want to make sure I can send it to every news casting station as well. |
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| ~beenawhile |
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Reply with quote | #150 |
Quote: Originally Posted by MICHELLE MOh one more thing what is the actual link to this website. I want to make sure I can send it to every news casting station as well.
Right click your mouse and a screen will pop up, scroll down to the word "properties" and left click
A new screen will appear, and you will then copy the line that looks like this.
http://www.msfraud.org/index.html
thats how to do it.
or you can copy the link i provided and put it in email to the News media, make sure you tell them to visit the forum.
good luck
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| Aimee |
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Reply with quote | #151 |
Michelle,
What newspaper are you going to start with? Do we start in Fort Worth or New York? I have contacted a newspaper near Glen Allen, VA but I think Saxon has left there. I read in the news that they were moving their operations to the Fort Worth location. Yesterday I googled the Glen Allen address to check out businesses near their address. I called the bank next door to ask if Saxon was sill at that location. She said, "I really don't know. I think they are. I never go over there." I tried to call the Chamber of Commerce, but it was late in the afternoon and I got voicemail. America's Moneyline is still listed at that location. I dialed that number because that is where we first got out loan, but at the Nashville location. Saxon Mortgage answered the phone. I don't have a loan number to give them to get through so I chose the option in the sales department thinking they would answer if they thought they could get more customers. A man answered. I asked him if he was at the Glen Allen location. He said he was not familiar with that location. He said he was at the Mercantile location. I knew that address all too well. It is the address in Fort Worth that we sent them thousands (one time $14K) to try to make them happy and keep our home that we built from the ground up. I am going to post names and addresses of top people to send complaints. When I go through our binders I am going to try to count all of the calls, letters and emails we made to try to work through our issues. A number of times we had to fax "Pete" (at least that is what he told us his name was) to get him to call us back. He is the customer service person that lied to us and pretended to work with us until two days before the foreclosure sale. It was too late for us to hire an attorney. |
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| Michelle M. |
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Reply with quote | #152 |
Lets start a List asap. I need everyones signature or name first. Please sign an email and I will get it started. Please if someone can help keep these signatures going and I say we need to send them to the top. The federal Government to Start. What do you all say? Lets just DO IT> |
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| Aimee |
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Reply with quote | #153 |
Where do we start first? Should we wtart ith Saxon Mortgage in Fort Worth or with Morgan Stanley In New York? I was told that the New York Observer and the New York Sun both love to expose bank and mortgage fraud. Is everybody ready to try? |
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| Molly |
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Reply with quote | #154 |
Another Saxon nightmare! It started when my husband was laid off and our income went down, I owed two house payments and they wouldn't accept just one...even with my promise to pay the other one in two weeks. So two weeks later I attempted to make two and they then wanted a third one.
My house has been on the market for 6 months, hasn't sold. We have requested a payoff 3 times and have yet to get one.
I called to set up a repayment plan and was told I needed a down payment. They had two of my payments sitting in a "credit account" since they wouldn't post them without the third one. So, I got into a payment plan. And they were to follow up in writing as to what that payment plan was, based on our phone conversation.
The due date of the first payment came, and I made it. Then get the payment plan letter and it's NOT what we agreed on, it's much more. So, now they say I'm in default of the paymnt plan.
They have about $7k they are holding in a credit account...I'm gettin no where and am afraid I will lose the home.
Also, there are outrageous fees that they indicate I owe. It makes no sense.
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| Michelle |
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Reply with quote | #155 |
Just wondering since the President spoke if Saxon is working on making loans fixed rates? |
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| William A. Roper, Jr. |
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Reply with quote | #156 |
Molly:
You need to get an attorney IMMEDIATELY. And you need to stop communicating with Saxon ORALLY and begin to set everything out in WRITING. EVERY CONVERSATION you have had with them to date has been USED by Saxon NOT to HELP YOU, but rather to GATHER EVIDENCE AGAINST YOU to be used in the ultimate FORECLOSURE. You are NOT dealing with HONORABLE or HONEST people!
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| Aimee |
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Reply with quote | #157 |
Yes Molly, William is right. Don't listen to Saxon because they will lie to you and give you false hope of getting your situation resolved. They will lead you to believe that you have no need to hire an attorney. They will stall long enough to work things out so that they can foreclose and make it look like they had every right to steal your home from you. Believe me. It happened to our family, it will happen to yours if you don't act soon. We trusted them too long because they gave us every indication that they were honest. A number of times they said to my husband, "Mr. _ _ _ _, We don't want your home." We didn't know they were holding payments. They double-dipped into our checking account when we made an online payment. They put the money back in our account when we caught them at that trick. We didn't know until after the foreclosure sale when we requested a payment history that when they put the money back in our account they never posted the payment. So actually, we weren't in foreclosure. We were charged for breach fees, drive by inspections (every two or three days) and for attorneys fees when we were NOT in foreclosure after all. |
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| Molly |
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Reply with quote | #158 |
Thank you guys for the advice. I do have a bankruptcy atty that is helping me some. This really stinks! |
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| Moose |
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Reply with quote | #159 |
Mollly - first, this isn't legal advice, but there are several things you need to be aware of and pass on to your attorney.
The fraudster servicers will pile in all kinds of utterly bogus fees in what is known as a "Proof of Claim." YOUR ATTORNEY MUST CONTEST THEIR PoC. In many cases, it's something automatically generated by their foreclosure mill and has little basis in fact. The law firm filing it for them will have very little to go on other than what they passed on to them, which may be nothing more than a computer-generated form.
If you are considering a chapter 13 (restructuring over 3 or 5 years), your attorney also needs to be prepared for an attempt on their part to add back in any charges the court rules aren't valid sometime in the future. Also - if you have a financial hiccup and your BK is dismissed, you loose the protection of the plan and they will start foreclosure almost instantly.
Good luck. Although most people who do file for 13 don't successfully complete the plan and get a discharge, those who can work through it can get back on their feet.
Moose
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| William A. Roper, Jr. |
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Reply with quote | #160 |
Your bankruptcy attorney also needs to DEMAND that the foreclosing mortgage investor furnish PROOF OF OWNERSHIP of the mortgage as part of the PROOF OF CLAIM and as a part of the motion for relief of stay.
This forces the mortgage investor to show its standing. Search this Message Board using keywords "Boyko" and separately for "standing" to see other prior discussion of this topic.
A San Diego bankrutcy judge DENIED a motion for relief from stay LAST WEEK! See some of the discussion inclusing my own comments about that at this other message board:
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2007/12/another-loan-se.html?cid=93016438#comment-93016438
If your attorney is UNFAMILIAR with the Boyko decisions and its implications, feel free to have him contact me directly! Bear in mind that I am NOT an attorney. But I DO have some unique insight into this case and its implications.
WHERE is your property located??
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| Katie B |
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Reply with quote | #161 |
Saxon does hold payments till after your 10 day grace period, so they can charge you interest and late fees. It was done to me, and since I send my payments electronically my bank got involved.
I have had other problems with Saxon and now refinancing with another morgatage Co.with a fixed rate.
SAXON IS NOT AN HONEST CO
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| Ed Cage |
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Reply with quote | #162 |
Katie B. wrote: "Saxon does hold payments till after your 10 day grace period, so they can charge you interest and late fees. It was done to me, and since I send my payments electronically my bank got involved." Dear Katie B: Indeed holding payments intentionally and "missing" payments lost” by the servicer that are replaced by the borrower then processed later are fairly basic schemes (illegal) to artificially push your home into a premature and unjust default. (1) This is a centerpiece of the “servicing” one can expect with AMC / Citi Residential (James Brantley) and EMC / Bear Stearns (Greg Fedler) and apparently Saxon and dozens of other fraudsters. * One remedy is to inform the hierarchy of the mortgage servicing entity that you are going to use this sort of behavior as clear and convincing evidence of a *pattern* of intentional fraud. (2) After you have made it clear to the higher echelon of the chain of command that you want your payments credited on time, there are several options to help increase your chances of getting your payment recorded when it was received. * You can do what I did at first (I do NOT recommend this plan but I was in a very early learning curve.) Call by phone and pay over the phone at a cost of an estimated extra $9.95 and get a confirmation number. This will usually, not always, get your payment in on time but it costs about $120 a year. Extra. But it does cut down on those artificially generated illicit and fraudulent “Late fees” which are $46.00 in my case. (3) Code your payments and again warn the hierarchy that you are having to resort to that method because you are now monitoring your payments very carefully. * What I mean by coding your payments is this: Say for example your payment is $772.92 a month like mine. That becomes $773.01 in January, $773.02 in February and so forth. Same for your Principal Only payments -- Let’s say you are paying an extra $100 a month towards principal only. That becomes $100.01 in January and so forth.. (4) I send my payments directly to John Vella and Greg Fedler of Bear Stearns in Lewisville Texas since Bear has now taken over the defunct EMC. Make the top brass earn their mega salaries by doing something other than swindle their investors and customers. When I sue, I intend to make use of the fact I have dealt largely with the top brass like notorious mortgage fraudsters James Brantley (Citi)* and the only bigger mortgage fraudster in America, Greg Fedler (Bear). I don’t want my accusations to melt back into the system to the effect, EMC / Bear are just a bunch of crooks. I want names and specific examples of real individual fraudsters held accountable. (5) Call customer service back each month to make sure your payment was credited. I also just insisted on 12-12-07 that EMC / Bear begin sending me statements every month after an eleven month hiatus from that routine, easy, common and expected task. I have asked before and it went nowhere. This time they said “No problem, we’ll be glad to do it” but we shall see.. Sometimes I feel Bear Stearns (Greg Fedler) will tell a lie even when the truth is a better story. Ed Cage / ecagetx@tx.rr.com / 972-596-4363 * James Brantley while he was swindling customers at AMC (now defunct) incredibly even went so far as to have AMC customer service explain, “You don’t owe your payment for three more days; no need to pay it today.” (True story)
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| Michelle |
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Reply with quote | #163 |
Has anyone got anywhere with Saxon in the past month. They keep telling me that they are sending a financial package out to me and I never recieve it. I have called 2x now and recieved nothing at all in the mail. I am up to date on my payments but afraid I wont be able to make them after my prime rate goes up. Where do I start. Please if someone could email me information asap. I would appreciate it.
Thanks
Michelle
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| William A. Roper, Jr. |
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Reply with quote | #164 |
Quote: Originally Posted By Michelle
Has anyone got anywhere with Saxon in the past month. They keep telling me that they are sending a financial package out to me and I never recieve it. I have called 2x now and recieved nothing at all in the mail. I am up to date on my payments but afraid I wont be able to make them after my prime rate goes up. Where do I start. Please if someone could email me information asap. I would appreciate it.
First, Michelle, you need to get the idea out of your head that you are dealing with honest people or people with any integrity. No matter WHAT oral assurances you receive and no matter what you are told on the telephone, the servicer is acting in what it perceives to be its own best interest and/or the best interest of its principal (but usually solely the FORMER, despite a fiduciary duty owed to the mortgage investor).
Accordingly, you need to be MEMORIALIZING your efforts at a restructuring IN WRITING.
That having been said, bear in mind that the mortgage investor and/or servicer is under NO OBLIGATION to accomodate you with any restructuring and it is rarely in their financial interest to do so. Neither is it even POSSIBLE for them to do pursuant to the terms of the trust indentures of the trusts owning the actual whole mortgages. (I will endeavor to elaborate on this important theme in another future post.) Whatever you are reading in the newspapers as to the President's plan for an interest rate freeze -- My advice would be DON'T COUNT ON IT -- and that is coming from a conservative Republican who SUPPORTS President Bush!
Mortgage servicers derive their income from two principal sources. First, servicers receive a servicing spread -- the difference between the gross note rate you pay and the net note rate required by the mortgage investor when the promissory loan is sold retaining the servicing rights. This servicing spread was historically about 1/2% on prime loans. When the servicer receives the monthly mortgage payment, the servicer passes along the interest attributable to the net note rate and all of the principal redemption, while pocketing the servicing spread.
The other source of servicing income is various "fees" charged the borrower. Historically, this was mostly a "late fee", but in recent years servicers have become increasingly inventive in manufacturing and creating other FEES which are assessed to borrowers.
On a $100,000 loan a 1/2% servicing spread works out to about $500 per year in the early years of the loan. Actually processing the payments and dong the accounting costs only a fraction of this amount.
Servicing fees constitute a very nice annuity for the loan servicer. And loan servicing rights are TRADED. The VALUE of loan servicing rights varies based upon a number of factors. But generally speaking, unlike most debt securities, servicing rights have the characteristic that their value is directly rather rather than inversely related to interest rates.
To put this another way, when interest rates RISE, prices of fixed income securities FALL. And which interest rates FALL, fixed income securities -- bond prices and traditional mortgage pass through issues RALLY.
By contrast, when interest rates RISE, the value of mortgage servicing rights also RISE. And when interest rates FALL, the value of mortgage servicing rights also FALL. The REASON this is the case is that while the servicing rights act as a form of annuity, mortgage PREPAYMENT characteristics are highly related to both the level and the COURSE of interest rates.
Think of the problem in the following way. When interest rates fall markedly -- say by more than 2% -- borrowers tend to REFINANCE. When the refinancing takes place, the existing mortgage is REPAID and the servicing rights for that mortgage are correspondingly EXTINGUISHED. The servicing annuity prematurely and immediately ENDS. So a steep drop in interest rates pushes the VALUE of mortgage servicing rights quickly to ZERO.
By contrast, when interest rates RISE two things tend to happen. First all refinancing activity tends to DRY UP. Why would anyone desire to refinance at higher rates? Second, sales of both new and existing homes tends to attenuate. Why SELL your home when people have difficulty getting financing? Why BUY a home when high interest rates make borrowing and home buying unaffordable.
So when rates RISE, the existing mortgages stay in place longer and the servicing annuity continues for an extended period of time.
It seems that several years ago, dishonest, unethical and unscrupulous servicers discovered a new GIMMICK to forestall refinancing (which extinguishes their servicing annuity). By inventing trash fees and applying borrower payments to these invented fees, the mortgage servicer INVENTED deliquencies which could be reported to credit bureaus. Through FABRICATED delinquencies, the servicers DAMAGED or DESTROYED the credit of the borrowers whose loans they were servicing! The borrowers thereby became CAPTIVE to the dishonest servicers DECOUPLING the value of the servicing rights from downward interest rate sensitivity!
This also had another rather ominous implication. Servicing rights are generally MORE VALUABLE to a DISHONEST servicer than to an HONEST servicer! That is a dishonest servicer can profit in two ways -- both through dishonestly applied FEES AND after destroying the borrowers credit a disproportionately LONG annuity even through interest rate cycles that make refinancing attractive. By stearing foreclosure business to various affiliated criminal law firms and real estate "workout specialists", the servicers even began profiting from the foreclosures themselves either directly or indirectly.
Bringing the matter back to your question the promised financial package that never arrives, you need to fortify yourself to the REALITY that the mortgage servicer has NO INCENTIVE and NO INTENTION of HELPING YOU. You have presented the servicer with an opportunity to UNDERMINE and DESROY YOUR CREDIT and this is precisely what the servicer is most likely to do.
When you call, you will get various comforting reassurances that the package is being prepared and sent out. In the meantime, the servicers are congratulating themselves on their guile and your stupidity!
DO NOT FALL FOR THIS!
What you NEED TO DO is to immediately begin looking for an alternative refinancing arrangement using a PRIME credit mortgage with a REPUTABLE lender. If you have other credit problems, you need to address those. If you are living in a house that you CANNOT AFFORD even with a lower MARKET interest rate, you need to give some serious consideration to SELLING IT, because this is a problem that is only going to be getting WORSE. Bear in mind that housing prices are generally FALLING. I believe that the FALL in home prices in most markets has only JUST BEGUN.
Precisely the right approach for YOUR situation depends upon MANY FACTORS, including what you paid for the house, what it is worth today and your net equity therein, the terms of your existing mortgage, your income and other financial resources and circumstances, and your ability to obtain support and assistance from family and friends. There is NOT one monolithically correct one size fits all solution.
Borrowers in the very worst circumstances who are unable to make payments and who face the prospect that their home is worth LESS than the mortgage amount may find that ALLOWING a foreclosure -- giving the house back to the lender -- is a viable strategy. Of course, this is NOT a viable strategy where there is substantial equity in the house and it is NOT a viable strategy for a borrower with a strong net worth residing in a state which has no anti-deficiency judgment statute.
I AN NOT A LAWYER AND CANNOT GIVE YOU LEGAL ADVICE, BUT I HAVE A VERY STRONG BACKGROUND IN FINANCE AND COULD GIVE YOU SOME LIMITED AND QUALIFIED FINANCIAL ADVICE IF YOU DESIRE TO E-MAIL ME.
You NEED to have a plan! If your circumstances make foreclosure inevitable, then you need to prepare for that and take actions to best protect yourself and your interests. If your circumstances are such that forecloure is NOT inevitable, then you need to be proactively working towards a goal to include extricating yourself from a predatory lending arrangement!
Merry Christmas and God Bless You!
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| chad |
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Reply with quote | #165 |
Heres my story, I had received a hail damage check from my insurance company with my name on it and saxon mortgages company name on it. I had contacted saxon mortgage about how I go about getting them to sign the check. They had told me to sign the check and send it to them with a letter stating it was for hail damage and send the insurance estimate and the would issue me a new check. So following their direction, that is what I did. Now I have been fighting them for six months on where the money is and why I havent received a check. Everyone I talk to is slightly more ignorant then the last and hopefully I can get this resolved before the spring when the rain starts seeping through the holes in my siding. my opinion of the company is that they are crooks, their customer service is ignorant beyond belief and the company in a whole is more interested in filling their pockets, then treating their customers like human beings and doing what is right. I will be refinancing as soon as I get the money that is owed to me. |
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| William A. Roper, Jr. |
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Reply with quote | #166 |
Quote: Originally posted by chad
They had told me to sign the check and send it to them with a letter stating it was for hail damage and send the insurance estimate and the would issue me a new check. So following their direction, that is what I did./QUOTE]
You are better off than MOST by at least having a letter to accompany your check. But the letter only really tells YOUR side of the conversation. You would have been BETTER OFF if you had at least obtained a WRITTEN REPRESNTATION from Saxon BEFORE giving up the check!
Saxon can reasonably assert that it has NOT agreed to the cotracted repairs on the terms you desire and may also have a reasonable basis for asserting that it wants some assurance that the work has been COMPLETED.
All of these things should have been arranged IN ADVANCE and IN WRITING before you surrendered the check to Saxon. I realize that this is NOT very helpful to you, as you TRUSTED THEM to behave honorably.
Depending upon the amounts involved, you may need to contact an attorney. You can probably obtain at least a free minimal preliminary consultation with an attorney at no charge. If the amount involved is SMALL, you may need to file an action yourself in small claims court.
You should be prepared with binding ESTIMATES not only of the damage but also of the COST of the repairs. The mortgage investor / servicer can rightfully INSIST that the funds be applied to the repairs, but this seems to be precisely what you have in mind. NOTHING seems likely to be resolved unless the mortgage servicer is FORCED to act.
It is likely to COST the servicer MORE to defend against litigation -- even in small claims court -- than they can hope to make by refusing to settle. There are NO CIRCUMSTANCES under which they are entitled to simply KEEP the check without applying it to either your mortgage or your escrows. But they very well MIGHT do so if you are NOT vigilant.
Make sure that you have all of your correspondence in order BEFORE you go to court. Make sure that your letters are short, polite and businesslike. Consider immediately send a RESPA qualified letter before doing anything else (see qualified RESPA letters elsewhere in these threads and at this site). Force them to RESPOND IN WRITING. Then go see a local judge and get some relief!
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| srsd |
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Reply with quote | #167 |
Chad, We had the same thing happen with Ameriquest. It took us 5 months to get our money back.. We had a new roof put on our house and paid for it and it was a little over $12,000 so it was difficult. I kept calling and e-mailing and finally got in touch with someone from the "loss draft" dept and it took them another month to finally send an inspector out to see that the work was completed. We did finally get the money back. It took the workers 3 days to do the work and it took us 5 months to get the check. I don`t see how a company can hold a check the way these companies do. It is not theirs. They are invested in the property and need to make sure things are getting repaired but some people can`t make repairs without the checks.
We even had the contractor send messages about the repairs and it still took 5 months. The inspector told us that this is so common with a lot of companies. They showed us the date they got the inspection order and it was the day before they came to our house so it is the companies that are falling behind.
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| Joe B |
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Reply with quote | #168 |
Chad-
I don't disagree with the advice you have received here so far. However, I do have an alternate path for you to consider.
I assume you pay for your homeowner's insurance directly. In either case, the insurance company works for you. Call them immediately, tell your story (succinctly!) and ask them to cancel the original check, and re-issue one to you only. If you and they agree, you could also ask for them to issue half now, and half at the completion of the repairs. Or if you like, have them issue the entire amount (however they want) to an agreed upon contractor. If you discuss the challenges you have had with Saxon, and perhaps enlighten them to Saxon's business practices in general, most insurance companies will want to have nothing to do with these types of scandals, and will do the right thing by THEIR customer----you!
However, cut the servicer out of the loop. If they already cashed the check, let your insurance company fight to get the money back (remind them that the mortgage company is impeding you from completing the repairs that they have paid for)! You are stuck in the middle, and shouldn't be. I know the mortgage company has an interest in the property, but they should not, and I believe cannot, decide how and when repairs are made. They do, however, have a right to ensure that the repairs are completed, as I am sure you and your insurance carrier would also wish...
Nevertheless, call the insurance company right away, and get the ball rolling, and leave Saxon out of the loop! Or alternately, find a lawyer and fight Saxon for the next six months to get your roof repaired!
JB
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| William A. Roper, Jr. |
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Reply with quote | #169 |
Quote: Originally posted by Joe B
I assume you pay for your homeowner's insurance directly. In either case, the insurance company works for you.
Joe B: This seems to me to be a Herculean assumption. But even if TRUE, the time for renegotiating with the hazard insurer was BEFORE giving up control of the check! I AGREE that IF chad had HELD the check or offered to EXCHANGE IT for one NOT naming Saxon, that this might have been an alternative strategy.
But I seriously DOUBT that this would have worked anyway. The mortgage investor is named as co-insured for a VALID REASON. If there are co-insureds, the hazard insurance company is going to INSIST on making the check dually payable to teh co-insureds.
Quote: Originally posted by Joe B
If they already cashed the check, let your insurance company fight to get the money back (remind them that the mortgage company is impeding you from completing the repairs that they have paid for)! You are stuck in the middle, and shouldn't be.
Joe B.: OF COURSE SAXON CASHED THE CHECK!! That was the whole point of getting chad to ENDORSE IT. Chad made a MISTAKE in following this dishonest and self-serving guidance. When he ENDORSED THE CHECK with an unrestricted endorsement, it became CASH to the mortgage servicer!
It is grossly UNREALISTIC to expect the hazard insurer to fight Chad's battle for him. The hazard insurer DID NOTHING WRONG HERE. Why should they expend corporate resources to fight with the mortgage servicer over CHAD'S MISTAKE?
Look at this another way. The hazard insurer put BOTH names on the check precisely because there are co-beneficiaries under the policy. They put CHAD's name on the check TO PROTECT CHAD. THEY MAILED THE CHECK TO CHAD TO FURTHER PROTECT CHAD. Chad got CONNED by Saxon. Why is that the hazard insurer's problem??
Chad got taken in by a DISHONEST servicer. Chad was SWINDLED. It is going to be expensive and time consuming for Chad to extricate himself from this situation. This is unfortunate. We are voluntarily helping because we are all committed to the MS Fraud issue. It is unreasonable for us to EXPECT that the hazard insurer will expend corporate resources to correct CHAD's MISTAKE in allowing himself to get swindled!
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| Joe B |
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Reply with quote | #170 |
WAR-
I offered Chad advice that worked for me; for the record my servicer is Fairbanks, and I don't think they come much more dishonest than that!
You had many additional comments that are worth Chad considering. I offered my thoughts...
Chad, whatever path you choose, good luck!
JB
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| 4 justice now |
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Reply with quote | #171 |
Joe B:
Great response, others might have taken it a bit personally. I'm glad to see you didn't.
R,
4J
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| William A. Roper, Jr. |
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Reply with quote | #172 |
Joe B.:
I apologize if my most recent post came across as overly HARSH! I certainly CONCUR that it is a BETTER strategy to negotiate and endeavor to find practical workarounds rather than to litigate. Perhaps there is something that the hazard insurer can do to help, but this seems most likely to be a blind alley to me. To a certain extent, I think that the insurer is placing the check in the BORROWER'S HANDS to give the borrower the UPPER HAND in the negotiation of the check made out to the co-payees.
But there is clearly what economists terms an asymmetry of information at play. The servicers are CONTINOUSLY in the business and encounter issues such as the disposition of hazard insurance proceeds. And they already have stock responses for their customer service personnel -- endorse and send us the check ("let me HOLD YOUR WALLET"). By contrast, the average borrower has NOT encountered this challenge of co-payees and most do NOT fully perceive that giving up the check with an UNRESTRICTED ENDORSEMENT gives up ALL CONTROL over the proceeds!
Also, bear in mind that I am responding not only with chad in mind, but also to help INFORM OTHERS who may face such a problem in the future.
The correct answer FOR OTHERS as set out previously is NOT TO GIVE UP THE CHECK WITH AN UNRESTRICTED ENDORSEMENT and TO GET IN WRITING the AGREED UPON DISPOSITION OF THE INSURANCE PROCEEDS.
I realize that it does NOT come across as compassionate to tell the VICTIM that he has made a MISTAKE. I do NOT want to seem overly sympathetic to Saxon... I am NOT. Chad was swindled. And he needs a viable strategy to recover the insurance proceeds. IF I WAS THE HAZARD INSURER, MY POSITION WOULD BE "SORRY BUDDY, WE MADE YOU CO-PAYEE AND SENT YOU THE CHECK TO PROTECT YOUR INTERESTS. THIS IS NOW A PROBLEM OF YOUR OWN MAKING."
I see no hard in Chad's asking the hazard insurer for help. But I would NOT delay pursuing other recovery strategies while he awaits his reply. And I would hate to see him undermine a possibly constructive and HONEST business relationship with possibly a very good hazard insurer by having false expectations as to what the hazard insurer's duties and responsibilities are in this situation. If he can enlist them to help, then BRAVO! And good for you if you were able to make this strategy work yourself!!
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| Gary Wait |
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Reply with quote | #173 |
Chad, cut all the BS aside, the insurance policy you made a claim under for hail damage, who was the "Insured" on Policy? And the Insurance Company.
Was this policy an "Admitted Policy" or "Surplus Lines"?
Was the policy a "Claims Made Policy" or "Occurrence Form"?
If this policy was forced placed by the lender, contact me.
You have several options available to you depending on the above information on the policy, and state your located in.
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| ~beenawhile |
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Reply with quote | #174 |
Quote: Originally Posted by chad
I had received a hail damage check from my insurance company with my name on it and saxon mortgages company name on it.
1. "Qualified Written Request" to Saxons, Correspondence Department, this address can be found on the back of your Monthly Billing Statement.
2. A Copy of tht Letter to your STATE INSURANCE COMMISSIONERS OFFICE.
3. A Copy of the Letter to your Home Owners Insurance Co.
4. A Copy of the Letter to your Local Congressman
5. A copy of the Letter to your STATE BANKING & FINANCE DEPARTMENT.
I am so sick & tired of hearing these theives keeping Insurance proceeds; that they know are not rightfully due to them, as a frakin "profit".
6.At this point, It is considered a "PROFIT" for Saxon, as they STILL have failed to release the funds to you.
(REFERENCE this in your letter aslo; as the BANKING & FINANCE Department will enjoy reading this.)
7. That Also brings to mind that this Letter might need to be sent to the Internal Revenue Service also. (Couldn't hurt anything to send it)
***In this letter AT the bottom you need to CC: EVERY ENTITY. I say no hole barred. LET IT LOOSE, and LET SAXON KNOW YOU ARE NOT GOING TO PLAY THERE WHERE'S THE MONEY GAME ANY LONGER!
Hold them Accountable for their Negligence.
Make Sure to include your phone number in the "Q.W.R." so that these other Entities may contact you if they wish.
Okay now in this letter you need to identify the following information:
A. the date the hail damage occurred
B. The damage occurred to the roof.
C. If your Roof leaks with the Rain you need to include this.
D. You were issued the check 6 months ago.
E. You have gotten the run around with Saxon (be polite)
F. to this day you Still do not have the check
G. To this DAY your ROOF IS STILL NOT REPAIRED.
H. Further DAMAGE IS OCCURRING BECAUSE OF THE RAIN, & will pressumably become MORE DAMAGED in the SPring with RAINY SEASON.
I. BLACK MOLD (a known toxin) & IS NOW A CONCERN.
J. Do you have GAPING holes you have covered with a tarp? Then take pictures and send it with the letters.
K. Call a Contractor/Roofing Company; One who does FREE ESTIMATES, Get them out to your house, and ask them to write up A Letter of WHAT FURTHER DAMAGE CAN OCCURR IF THE ROOF IS NOT FIXED SOON!
(the contractor should be more than happy to do this for you if they think you will hire them for the job, once the Money is in your hands.)
L. Send this LETTER of FURTHER DAMAGE ALONG WITH YOUR "Q. W. R.". (You also want this letter to go to EVERYONE who is getting a Copy of the "Q. W. R." )
Lastly Chad, You will want to send the LETTER TO SAXON & YOUR HOME OWNERS INSURNACE COMPANY as CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT, SIGNATURE REQUIRED!
(And yes this can all be sent to a P.O.Box!)
Okay, now what about all the Other letters? You will Definatley want to send these letters as SIGNATURE Required. (this way none of the entities can "claim" they didn't get such mail from you)
Again, Chad if there is damage don't forget to include pictures of the damage with each letter.
It was said that the Home Owners Insurance Company does really care at this point. Well they WILL care if they even begin to think that there might be a BLACK MOLD problem developing! Why? Because it's further money the Insurance Company would have to hand out on the EXTREME Health Issues that arise from such toxin!
They will also care if there is further Structural damage, Because its another Loss they'd have to pay.
If the Insurance Company isn't involved now..... THEY SURELY WILL BE & REAL SOON TOO!
Get this letter pumped out quickly, and sent to all of the entities I've listed above, and hopefully you will get some action soon.
Keep us Posted, and let us know what happens!
here is the link to the Q. W. R. Letter. Just do a copy paste of the letter into your Microsoft Word Program, and Type the letter as needed. http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/res/reslettr.cfm
Try to keep it short and sweet.
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| ~beenwhile |
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Reply with quote | #175 |
Oh, I also forgot to tell you that the BLACK MOLD, is VERY VERY EXPENSIVE, to clear up, & get rid off. The Insurance Company will NOT WANT TO HAVE TO CURE/REPAIR THIS PROBLEM!
Good Luck!
Hope it's Helpful.
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